December 29, 2008

Mir vs. Lesnar 2 or This is What Happens When Bad Meets Evil

By Warren Piece (warrenpiece@mmaratings.net)

So, the UFC Heavyweight mini-touranment has finally shaken out and we are left with Mir vs. Lesnar 2 to decide who is the true champ. To be honest, I am quite content with this result. Lesnar defeated Randy decisively and without controversy at UFC 91 and Mir did the same to Big Nog at 92. Furthermore, this sets up a pretty decent sequel to the UFC 81 bout that, in a nutshell, consisted of Brock laying waste to Frank before getting caught in a leg lock.

I predict Lesnar takes Mir in the rematch for the following reasons: A) Although Frank's new "three-strikes and you're out" technique looked solid and worked like a charm against Minotauro, I don't see him knocking Brock down or out; and B) Frank admitted (if my clouded memory serves me correctly/who has time for research/what am I, a journalist?) during his post-fight roganview after his win over Lesnar that he couldn't submit the Behemoth's neck or arms and that a leg or foot was his only option. What are the chances of Mir taking Lesnar's lower appendages once more? I'm sure Lesnar will be practicing the shit out of those particular submission defenses/escapes. No, I see Lesnar taking Frank down with ease as he did in their first meeting, avoiding Mir's submission attempts and pounding him out to unify the belts.

Moving on to public perception issues: I believe that the majority of fight fans see, both, Lesnar and Mir as "the bad guy". Lesnar for his WWE background and too-quick shot at the title and Mir for his distasteful personality and all the wacky shit he says on television. It is my opinion that the Lesnar-hating is unwarranted. Sure, nobody with his level of inexperience or short MMA record gets a title shot, but Brock defeated Randy Couture (who many considered to be THE best HW in the world going into that fight) with little difficulty. If he had lost that bout and looked shitty, everyone could tell Dana and Co. that they fucked up, but he didn’t...he looked dominant. So what's to complain about/what’s to hate? On the other hand (again, in my opinion...sorry Eric), there is plenty to validly hate about Frank Mir: A) His new entrance song is Nas' "Hate Me Now". Thanks, but I already did and don't need your permission to do so; B) He was a prick, in general, throughout his term on TUF 8 to his team and everyone else; C) He now fancies himself a bone-breaker and told Rogan that he plans to make Lesnar famous with the break he does on him. Who else in MMA desires to break the bones of their fellow combatants (I know…Steve Cantwell), put them in the hospital and out of commission so that they may no longer earn a living in order to take care of themselves and/or their families? And is this a smart thing to be saying when MMA is not yet sanctioned in many states because it is perceived to be too violent a sport? NO; AND D) He has stated publicly that he would be willing to break his own mother’s arm. Need I comment further on that one? That all said, Brock is the good guy and Frank is the bad guy. So now you all know who to root for. You’re welcome. But seriously, it will be interesting to see how their PPV fares buy-wise if fans continue to dislike both men leading up to the fight.

Regardless of who wins their rematch, I can’t wait to see the victor take on the winner of the rumored UFC 96 matchup between Gabe Gonzaga and Shane Carwin. Cheick Kongo? Not so much.

36 comments:

  1. You dislike Mir because he has an attitude? The guy fell from grace in a big way, lost his belt, nearly lost his life to alcohol and perscription drugs, and has made a valid comeback with wins against the now current champ, and the much-decorated if aging Nog. Sure he talks some trash, but this is the fight game. It gets people pumped up. It shows some fighters have personalities. Would you rather tune in to some badass who claims he'll break your arm, or a nerd like Dolloway who wants to make friends at the pub? Come on, harden up.

    Its not like its Mir's fault someones arm broke. Anyone in a submission hold has the option TO TAP. Sure, anyone that goes past a tap to a breakage should be barred from the sport and rightly hated. But if someone is just too dumb to tap, then you get what you deserve.

    I think Brock is fine, he was very classy during his screen time in '92, but I think hating on Mir for the above reasons is kinda weak. I just wanna see the fight!

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  2. I'm with AcidFiend all the way. Smack talk is all good, especially when it comes off as legit like it did at 92 (not like some old, contrived Tito BS).

    What's more, I think Frank is a great commentator and personality (not to mention he's now the #2 heavyweight(.

    The only thing I hold against Brock is when he pushed Heath after the bell.

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  3. Brock looked good in his win over Randy, but dominant? hm. maybe. maybe not.
    The one thing to remember about Mir is that he changed up his game for Nog, and used his time at TUF to observe and gameplan for him. He claims he upped his cardio, and he clearly improved his striking. Who's to say he wasn't, at the same time, planning for Lesnar? If he can change his game completely to deal with Big Nog, he can change his game completely to deal with Lesnar. The raw emotion Mir's always displayed was there on Saturday, just watch when they announce him champ. Can you honestly hate that guy, right then?

    I've been a Mir fan when he sucked, and I'm going to stay a Mir fan. He's got a huge mountain to climb against Lesnar, but he CAN beat that guy. Let's see what happens, should be good either way.

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  4. I agree with Garth in that I think Randy was beating Brock until he got caught, and also his points about Mir.

    I will say however, that as much I hope Mir beats Lesnar, I think the odds are with Lesnar. As much as Mir's standup was improved here, it wasn't that great, Minotauro just looked that bad. It was no whee near the level of Randy's standup, and I don't think it was as good as Brock's either.

    I imagine their rematch to go similar to their first match: they standup up and trade until Brock knocks him down with a punch and Brock pounces with quick hammerfists until the referee stops the fight.

    But like I said, I really like Mir and I hope he can pull it off again, with a submission, or even more improved standup.

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  5. I don't dislike Frank because he talks trash, I dislike him because he's a jerkoff. There are plenty of guys who talk trash but I like. He's not one of them. I know Mir beat a great fighter in Big Nog, it def was not the nog we are used to. I honestly feel nogera looked worse then mir looked great. If Mir can just shut his mouth, win a few more fight, then maybe he might make some fans.

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  6. so anyone think there's any truth to Nog possibly being injured? The man hasn't said it, but he came in heavy, not looking great.

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  7. Where did you hear that? Its certainly possible, but I was thinking that he underestimated Mir and thought it would be a grappling match.

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  8. i think it was someone mentioning it in passing on FL. no actual "source" or anything. but coming in out of shape could happen from an injury.

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  9. United Alliance of Frank Mir Lovers:

    Dana White told the Carmichael Dave Show (whatever that is) that Nogueira was just getting over a Staph infection heading into his fight with Mir. In addition, I have heard rumors that Frank Mir had been suffering from having a silly hairdo just prior to UFC 92. I believe he still has it.

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  10. "United Alliance of Frank Mir Lovers" - "silly hairdo" - LOL. Warren you crack me up.

    I too heard that Nog was coming in injured or not feeling well. Let's face it - it wasn't his night.

    I don't think Mir's someone special or some kind of role model because he's had problems and overcome them. I mean come on - we've all had to overcome crap in our lives, but we don't have to take it out on the world afterwards. I don't.

    However, I do dislike him because of his attitude problem and obvious disrespect for everyone - as evidenced on TUF 8. While I can't stand much of the antics by the "boys" on the show, I do enjoy watching it to see the coaches. It's a real tell. IMHO Warren's right: Nog is a gentleman and a true karateka fighter in every sense of the word, and Mir is a rude obnoxious idiot.

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  11. i'd hold back from basing your opinion on what the TUF editing decides you should see. i've seen other videos that would seem to show a different dude. in the same way katrina's saying "we've all gone through crap", we all have different faces at different times. i mean, if you want to you can look at nog losing his nut over that guy "disrespecting" him. what kind of juvenile shit was that? you barely see a thing through the TUF lens.
    and...really...isn't having problems and overcoming them kind of the point? isn't that what fighting, at its root, is? the other fighter's the problem. you have to overcome it. life itself is a long fight of varying intensity.

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  12. There is really no quantifiable way in which to determine whether Mir, Nog or anyone else is a jerk or not (hey Eric, I didn't say "asshole"). It is all a matter of opinion.

    And, I do not believe that an individual is or isn't one to admire simply based on what they've accomplished or overcome. I am positive that Hitler overcame many an obstacles during his rise to power and he sure did accomplish many of his goals. Does that make him someone to admire? Is that a reason to like him? I am not comparing ANYONE to Hitler, just making a point.

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  13. huh, that looks like an exact comparison to hitler. i call godwin's law, let's move the hell on. this is just an exercise in molecular hair-splitting right now. it's OK to say you don't like the guy.

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  14. Well, it's not. It's an analogy. Thought I made that pretty clear.

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  15. first definition of analogy is a comparison.

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  16. You know, it's times like these when I miss garth1. Talk about hair-splitting! ANYWAY, you're right, this is getting really stupid.THE END.

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  17. Ummmm - except, $2 cents more here, just to clarify. When I mentioned this "I don't think Mir's someone special or some kind of role model because he's had problems and overcome them." I was talking to Acidfiend. I didn't think Warren thought this. Okay - Kats done! Meow...

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  18. Garth, picking on the new guy again. Classic. Garth I say your considerable talents are wasted here on the comments and could be putto better use delivering some of your own witty POV.

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  19. Nog had a staph infection according to Dana. Regardless Mir was awesome. I don't get all the Mir hate...Mir never Pointed and Laughed at a fighter after he beat him...Lesnar has.
    Lesnar is a total meathead. Mir is a real athlete. Athletes have testosterone with is Mir's only fault..but Lesnar is just a big pile or testosterone and ego. He ticks me off way more then Mir. I give the Fight to Lesnar just because you can't fool him twice but Mir will forever deserve props for what he's done.

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  20. UPDATE: Dana is saying that this fight could happen in April (would that be UFC 97 in Montreal?):

    http://www.FightLine.com/news/2009/0106/379103/dana_white.shtml

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  21. Lesnar is overrated and he is to rude and he got a title shot way too early.

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  22. First off, Brock talked trash and completely disrespected what REAL MMA fans consider to be the true HW title holder of the world, Fedor!

    Sorry Brock, you wouldn't last 10-seconds, nor are you fit to lick the boots of Fedor.

    Secondly, When Mir broke Sylvia's arm, he wanted to continue fighting! He didn't even know it was broken! Later he thanked them for stopping the fight.

    Mir is actually a really intelligent and humble guy. He didn't even think he was going to beat Nog!

    I actually find Lesnar to be more cocky and abrasive than most fighters.

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  23. Mir said he was looking for Lesnar's legs OR neck for a weak point in his post fight interview. Also, I don't believe Lesnar looked good at all in his fight against Couture, the only thing keeping him in that fight was his size and strength, which is all he relies on to begin with. It's obvious he's learned absolutely nothing since his first fight. He was losing that fight until he got that lucky shot in. Lesnar is arrogant, not all that intelligent of a fighter, and every professional opportunity he's ever had has been handed to him, not earned. Mir is a true champ and too smart, I think he will pull out another quick submission, this time a choke.

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  24. lesnar is a jerk off. He thinks he is still a pro wrsetler when he cuts promo's. Mir will beat him on his feet and on the ground. Lesnar's striking is not that good to be honest. He just swings aimlessly till he connects.

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  25. I hate brock, and hope to see Mir break his arm too! One of them made their fame fighting from the ground up (Mir), the other made his fame by fake fighting his way up (Lesnar). Brock got lucky against couture, and now's he's the champion, but definately not a valid one in my eyes. Fedor has lost a fight by luck of the draw, but when he returned for the rematch, he owned! I have more respect for Kimbo Slice than I do for Brock Lesnar....

    Go MIR!

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  26. Ouch Mir got fucking annihilated,wait we all knew that this was gonna happen didnt we? Sorry for you retarded mir fans out there,thats just hoping a little to much!

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  27. well... Brock completely dominated Mir. is he a valid champion yet? who else does he have to beat up? he beat who was considered the best heavyweight in the UFC in Couture. then he humiliated the guy who got lucky and put the one loss on his record.

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  28. USMC Chris Muay ThaiJuly 17, 2009 at 3:47 AM

    I have no respect for Lesnar even after the fight. All he does is lay on people like god damn wrestlers always do. He dosnt deserve to be where he is and he knows it. I can't wait for Fedor to ruin him. (And im no Mir fan, Mir can suck on my glove.)

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  29. well... Brock completely dominated Mir. is he a valid champion yet? who else does he have to beat up? he beat who was considered the best heavyweight in the UFC in Couture. then he humiliated the guy who got lucky and put the one loss on his record.

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  30. You know, it's times like these when I miss garth1. Talk about hair-splitting! ANYWAY, you're right, this is getting really stupid.THE END.

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  31. Mir said he was looking for Lesnar's legs OR neck for a weak point in his post fight interview. Also, I don't believe Lesnar looked good at all in his fight against Couture, the only thing keeping him in that fight was his size and strength, which is all he relies on to begin with. It's obvious he's learned absolutely nothing since his first fight. He was losing that fight until he got that lucky shot in. Lesnar is arrogant, not all that intelligent of a fighter, and every professional opportunity he's ever had has been handed to him, not earned. Mir is a true champ and too smart, I think he will pull out another quick submission, this time a choke.

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  32. Garth, picking on the new guy again. Classic. Garth I say your considerable talents are wasted here on the comments and could be putto better use delivering some of your own witty POV.

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  33. Ouch Mir got fucking annihilated,wait we all knew that this was gonna happen didnt we? Sorry for you retarded mir fans out there,thats just hoping a little to much!

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  34. USMC Chris Muay ThaiMay 10, 2011 at 4:46 PM

    I have no respect for Lesnar even after the fight. All he does is lay on people like god damn wrestlers always do. He dosnt deserve to be where he is and he knows it. I can't wait for Fedor to ruin him. (And im no Mir fan, Mir can suck on my glove.)

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  35. Well, it's not. It's an analogy. Thought I made that pretty clear.

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  36. You dislike Mir because he has an attitude? The guy fell from grace in a big way, lost his belt, nearly lost his life to alcohol and perscription drugs, and has made a valid comeback with wins against the now current champ, and the much-decorated if aging Nog. Sure he talks some trash, but this is the fight game. It gets people pumped up. It shows some fighters have personalities. Would you rather tune in to some badass who claims he'll break your arm, or a nerd like Dolloway who wants to make friends at the pub? Come on, harden up.

    Its not like its Mir's fault someones arm broke. Anyone in a submission hold has the option TO TAP. Sure, anyone that goes past a tap to a breakage should be barred from the sport and rightly hated. But if someone is just too dumb to tap, then you get what you deserve.

    I think Brock is fine, he was very classy during his screen time in '92, but I think hating on Mir for the above reasons is kinda weak. I just wanna see the fight!

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